2014/15 NBA

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Art Vandaley » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:06 pm

Big enough news for a double post

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Art Vandaley » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:07 pm

Big enough news for a double post

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:59 pm

Art Vandaley wrote:
Mel Torme wrote:Go Sixers!!

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JAVALE and CANNONBALL. At least the last month will be fun with lots of alleyoops.


Canaan getting the start tonight. I am excited.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Art Vandaley » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:49 pm

He will attack the rim.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:37 am

Mel Torme wrote:
Art Vandaley wrote:
Mel Torme wrote:Go Sixers!!

Image


JAVALE and CANNONBALL. At least the last month will be fun with lots of alleyoops.


Canaan getting the start tonight. I am excited.



Hinkie is doing well collecting "young talent" but they are far from sure things, Embiid is still a huge risk with his injury issues and it looks like he may have some issues with maturity and lack of focus. I'd be extremely worried about the culture that is developing in philly and especially to other players around the league. To them they appear to not care about winning, which i think is crippling. Even when your team sucks I feel you should try to win and to develop that winning culture for your young guys. What good is it if you young guys are developing on a team that is trying to lose for a better pick, it is going to instill a losing attitude on your players. Losing may be easy from a fan's and front office perspective but it definitely takes a toll on players. Also as a potential free agent would you really want to sign with a team that traded last year's ROY for a shitty pick? The sixer's rep is that they are a joke. It is very rare that successful teams are built with just high lottery picks, the Thunder are a rare exception and they haven't won anything.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:08 am

The past 10 years (well...from the last few prime Iverson years through Hinkie getting here) consisted of "trying" to win, which in the NBA simply means sneaking into the playoffs and getting smacked in the first round every year. Mediocrity in the NBA gets soooo old. Need stars to be a real contender. Free agents weren't exactly lining up to come here during the Evan Turner/Andre Iguodala years either, even though they were regularly a playoff team. Hinkie is all about acquiring assets, and hoping the high first rounders either turn into studs on their own, or that enough assets are built up to pounce and trade for a stud when he becomes available (a la the Rockets with James Harden). There are a lot of options.

I'd also like to correct you a bit on the Carter-Williams situation. I really don't think he is that good. He was rookie of the year because he played a ton of minutes and took a lot of shots on a really bad team. He is still incredibly flawed and until he learns how to shoot (if he even can at this point), his ceiling is extremely limited. The pick we are getting back is hardly shitty....whether we get it this season or next, it has a very strong possibility of being top 6 or 7 in a fairly strong draft. That is much better value than hanging onto MCW (who was the 11th pick in an incredibly shitty draft, for what it's worth).

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:17 am

Mel Torme wrote:The past 10 years (well...from the last few prime Iverson years through Hinkie getting here) consisted of "trying" to win, which in the NBA simply means sneaking into the playoffs and getting smacked in the first round every year. Mediocrity in the NBA gets soooo old. Need stars to be a real contender. Free agents weren't exactly lining up to come here during the Evan Turner/Andre Iguodala years either, even though they were regularly a playoff team. Hinkie is all about acquiring assets, and hoping the high first rounders either turn into studs on their own, or that enough assets are built up to pounce and trade for a stud when he becomes available (a la the Rockets with James Harden). There are a lot of options.

I'd also like to correct you a bit on the Carter-Williams situation. I really don't think he is that good. He was rookie of the year because he played a ton of minutes and took a lot of shots on a really bad team. He is still incredibly flawed and until he learns how to shoot (if he even can at this point), his ceiling is extremely limited. The pick we are getting back is hardly shitty....whether we get it this season or next, it has a very strong possibility of being top 6 or 7 in a fairly strong draft. That is much better value than hanging onto MCW (who was the 11th pick in an incredibly shitty draft, for what it's worth).



So far the assets that the sixes have is damaged goods they will not become more valuable until they play in the nba and actually produce and show that they can help win games.. I agree I am not a MCW fan at all as I get that his numbers were inflated due to their pace/ talent but that does not negate my point about from a player's perspective it is not a good look when a player who just got accolades his first year and thought of as a " core guy" (although clearly this never the case) is traded for little to nothing instead of trying as much value as you can (I'm sure there were teams willing to give up than what philly brought back.) it is going to leave a weird taste in their mouths. Free agents aren't going to want to play for a team that has that type of mindset and culture. I am extremely biased but I feel a lot better about the Celtics direction than the Sixers. Look at the Hawks they were a fringe playoff team that overtime has now developed into a contender.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:26 am

I really do feel like that was a no brainer trade for the Sixers and I have to disagree about the return - I think a likely high lottery pick is a heist for a guy like MCW.

And I'm not sure what you mean about damaged goods. 5 first round picks over the next 2 years, god knows how many second rounders, and a possible stud already in house with Embiid. I'd say that's a solid foundation to start from.

As for the way MCW was branded, that is the marketing departments concern, not Hinkie's. That's my favorite part about the guy....he couldn't care less what anyone other than ownership thinks of all this. And thankfully ownership is totally on board

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:49 pm

Mel Torme wrote:I really do feel like that was a no brainer trade for the Sixers and I have to disagree about the return - I think a likely high lottery pick is a heist for a guy like MCW.

And I'm not sure what you mean about damaged goods. 5 first round picks over the next 2 years, god knows how many second rounders, and a possible stud already in house with Embiid. I'd say that's a solid foundation to start from.

As for the way MCW was branded, that is the marketing departments concern, not Hinkie's. That's my favorite part about the guy....he couldn't care less what anyone other than ownership thinks of all this. And thankfully ownership is totally on board



I'm curious to what your thoughts are on my other point about the culture they are creating in Philly? The young guys have no direction. Also Embiid's health would scare me as a Sixer's fan, he is far from a sure thing. It isn't uncommon to see talented bigs see their careers shortened due to injuries from their bodies breaking down. Which also worries to hear that he has put on so much weight one has wonder how his body react to it.

I would rather be in Boston's position where they are a young team that is fighting for a playoff spot because their success will only raise the assets that are already on the team helping them win. This offseason is the first time Boston will have cap space since I have been a fan and if they squeak into the playoffs with their young core, they suddenly look a lot more attractive to star free agents. Then there is the amount of picks that Ainge has acquired for the next 5 years that will give them a lot of flexibility in the trade market when a disgruntled star emerges. The brooklyn picks that boston has may turn into gold in netting the celtics their next star.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:49 pm

gammajamma wrote:
Mel Torme wrote:I really do feel like that was a no brainer trade for the Sixers and I have to disagree about the return - I think a likely high lottery pick is a heist for a guy like MCW.

And I'm not sure what you mean about damaged goods. 5 first round picks over the next 2 years, god knows how many second rounders, and a possible stud already in house with Embiid. I'd say that's a solid foundation to start from.

As for the way MCW was branded, that is the marketing departments concern, not Hinkie's. That's my favorite part about the guy....he couldn't care less what anyone other than ownership thinks of all this. And thankfully ownership is totally on board



I'm curious to what your thoughts are on my other point about the culture they are creating in Philly? The young guys have no direction. Also Embiid's health would scare me as a Sixer's fan, he is far from a sure thing. It isn't uncommon to see talented bigs see their careers shortened due to injuries from their bodies breaking down. Which also worries to hear that he has put on so much weight one has wonder how his body react to it.

I would rather be in Boston's position where they are a young team that is fighting for a playoff spot because their success will only raise the assets that are already on the team helping them win. This offseason is the first time Boston will have cap space since I have been a fan and if they squeak into the playoffs with their young core, they suddenly look a lot more attractive to star free agents. Then there is the amount of picks that Ainge has acquired for the next 5 years that will give them a lot of flexibility in the trade market when a disgruntled star emerges. The brooklyn picks that boston has may turn into gold in netting the celtics their next star.


The culture doesn't matter at all yet, in my opinion. Almost all of these guys are fighting like crazy every night for their NBA futures and almost all of them know that their future likely won't be here. I'm talking about guys like Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington, Tony Wroten when he was healthy, etc. They are all very fun to watch and root for IMO. Despite the overall lack of talent, they seem to be a well-coached bunch and they play hard every night. As a fan of a team in this situation, that's all I can really hope for right now.

The roster turnover during this process is pretty crazy. Since most of these guys won't be here the next time the Sixers contend, whatever the atmosphere in the locker room is like doesn't matter to me at all. And for what it's worth, almost all of the negative stuff I have heard about culture this season (which hasn't been much) was centered around MCW and KJ McDaniels, both of whom are now out of the picture. I view it as a non factor. Once again, I am of the belief that once we have our superstar(s), the wins will come, and with wins comes a good "culture".

As I mentioned earlier, the Sixers recent mediocrity got so stale. That is why I am all for a total tear down and rebuild and will wait however long it takes to get it done right.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:00 pm

On a related note, the Sixers are a big inspiration for what I am trying to do with my Mogul team!!

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:10 pm

Mel Torme wrote:
gammajamma wrote:
Mel Torme wrote:I really do feel like that was a no brainer trade for the Sixers and I have to disagree about the return - I think a likely high lottery pick is a heist for a guy like MCW.

And I'm not sure what you mean about damaged goods. 5 first round picks over the next 2 years, god knows how many second rounders, and a possible stud already in house with Embiid. I'd say that's a solid foundation to start from.

As for the way MCW was branded, that is the marketing departments concern, not Hinkie's. That's my favorite part about the guy....he couldn't care less what anyone other than ownership thinks of all this. And thankfully ownership is totally on board



I'm curious to what your thoughts are on my other point about the culture they are creating in Philly? The young guys have no direction. Also Embiid's health would scare me as a Sixer's fan, he is far from a sure thing. It isn't uncommon to see talented bigs see their careers shortened due to injuries from their bodies breaking down. Which also worries to hear that he has put on so much weight one has wonder how his body react to it.

I would rather be in Boston's position where they are a young team that is fighting for a playoff spot because their success will only raise the assets that are already on the team helping them win. This offseason is the first time Boston will have cap space since I have been a fan and if they squeak into the playoffs with their young core, they suddenly look a lot more attractive to star free agents. Then there is the amount of picks that Ainge has acquired for the next 5 years that will give them a lot of flexibility in the trade market when a disgruntled star emerges. The brooklyn picks that boston has may turn into gold in netting the celtics their next star.


The culture doesn't matter at all yet, in my opinion. Almost all of these guys are fighting like crazy every night for their NBA futures and almost all of them know that their future likely won't be here. I'm talking about guys like Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington, Tony Wroten when he was healthy, etc. They are all very fun to watch and root for IMO. Despite the overall lack of talent, they seem to be a well-coached bunch and they play hard every night. As a fan of a team in this situation, that's all I can really hope for right now.

The roster turnover during this process is pretty crazy. Since most of these guys won't be here the next time the Sixers contend, whatever the atmosphere in the locker room is like doesn't matter to me at all. And for what it's worth, almost all of the negative stuff I have heard about culture this season (which hasn't been much) was centered around MCW and KJ McDaniels, both of whom are now out of the picture. I view it as a non factor. Once again, I am of the belief that once we have our superstar(s), the wins will come, and with wins comes a good "culture".

As I mentioned earlier, the Sixers recent mediocrity got so stale. That is why I am all for a total tear down and rebuild and will wait however long it takes to get it done right.


I disagree with the last statement, the sixers looked like they were heading the right way but then they fucked up with the bynum trade and that has set the franchise back into it's tankpalooza. I'm just hesitant to all this praise Hinkie gets until we actually see a product that flashes championship potential. Having the picks is one thing but making the right pick is extremely tough. Look at a team like the Kings or the Timberwolves who have have been in the lottery for 6 years or longer. The kings have a star in Cousins, the Timberwolves had one in Love who they had to trade away. Both those franchises have had top picks for years and have gone no where because they were poorly run and didn't have a strong culture established. Heck the Kings fired a coach who was getting them wins and having them play defense. The sixers haven't shown me anything that makes me in have faith in how they are running things. How many years are you willing to give Hinkie for this rebuild? How many years from now do you give to turn into a contender before you would consider this is a failure?
Last edited by gammajamma on Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:27 pm

gammajamma wrote:I disagree with the last statement, the sixers looked like they were heading the right way but then they fucked up with the bynum trade and that has set the franchise back into it's tankpalooza. I'm just hesitant to all this praise Hinkie gets until we actually see a product that flashes championship potential.


We will never know for sure, but I tend to think that a team with no cap space and a core of Iguodala/Turner/Vucevic/Holiday, in addition to a terrible coach (Doug Collins), wasn't any more or less special than anything else they'd tried out in recent years. Fringe playoff team, but elite teams will run circles around them in April. AKA the exact thing that's been going on here for years that I am so happy is over. Also for the record the Bynum trade was made pre-Hinkie, which is a fact that many Sixer fans seem to conveniently forget when piling on with all the Hinkie hate.

gammajamma wrote:Having the picks is one thing but making the right pick is extremely tough. Look at a team like the Kings or the Timberwolves who have have been in the lottery for 6 years or longer.


You are right, it is very difficult to hit on the right guys in the draft. That is why it is so important that the Sixers have as many picks as they do. All about getting as many chances as possible at picking "the guy". Which is basically what the MCW trade comes down to as well. MCW was clearly not the guy, so they swapped him for another chance (the Laker pick).

gammajamma wrote:How many years are you willing to give Hinkie for this rebuild? How many years from now do you give to turn into a contender before you would consider this is a failure?


It's hard to believe but Hinkie has only been in charge for a season and a half (well, starting with the draft before last season). So I think talk like this is a bit premature. I just want to see it done right, I honestly don't care how long it takes. Hinkie hasn't done anything to lose my trust yet, and until that happens I'm not going to say "he gets X amount of time before I give up". No need to rush, at all.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:35 pm

Mel Torme wrote:
gammajamma wrote:I disagree with the last statement, the sixers looked like they were heading the right way but then they fucked up with the bynum trade and that has set the franchise back into it's tankpalooza. I'm just hesitant to all this praise Hinkie gets until we actually see a product that flashes championship potential.


We will never know for sure, but I tend to think that a team with no cap space and a core of Iguodala/Turner/Vucevic/Holiday, in addition to a terrible coach (Doug Collins), wasn't any more or less special than anything else they'd tried out in recent years. Fringe playoff team, but elite teams will run circles around them in April. AKA the exact thing that's been going on here for years that I am so happy is over. Also for the record the Bynum trade was made pre-Hinkie, which is a fact that many Sixer fans seem to conveniently forget when piling on with all the Hinkie hate.

gammajamma wrote:Having the picks is one thing but making the right pick is extremely tough. Look at a team like the Kings or the Timberwolves who have have been in the lottery for 6 years or longer.


You are right, it is very difficult to hit on the right guys in the draft. That is why it is so important that the Sixers have as many picks as they do. All about getting as many chances as possible at picking "the guy". Which is basically what the MCW trade comes down to as well. MCW was clearly not the guy, so they swapped him for another chance (the Laker pick).

gammajamma wrote:How many years are you willing to give Hinkie for this rebuild? How many years from now do you give to turn into a contender before you would consider this is a failure?


It's hard to believe but Hinkie has only been in charge for a season and a half (well, starting with the draft before last season). So I think talk like this is a bit premature. I just want to see it done right, I honestly don't care how long it takes. Hinkie hasn't done anything to lose my trust yet, and until that happens I'm not going to say "he gets X amount of time before I give up". No need to rush, at all.



I'm aware Hinkie came after the bynum trade (as the first Hinkie move I think of is the Noel/Holiday trade) , my point is that you had some young talent assets that are no longer here and for a year of Bynum but you were in position to acquire a star which you did, the problem is it was one with bums knees and a lack of passion. Vucevic getting away is going to hurt, he looks like he is going to be a pretty good player in Orlando. It is hard to have faith in two young bigs who already have had to miss significant time of their careers due to injuries.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:43 pm

gammajamma wrote:I'm aware Hinkie came after the bynum trade (as the first Hinkie move I think of is the Noel/Holiday trade) , my point is that you had some young talent assets that are no longer here and for a year of Bynum but you were in position to acquire a star which you did, the problem is it was one with bums knees and a lack of passion. Vucevic getting away is going to hurt, he looks like he is going to be a pretty good player in Orlando. It is hard to have faith in two young bigs who already have had to miss significant time of their careers due to injuries.


Nerlens looks very healthy this year and reports on Embiid have been positive. But the concern is noted/warranted. However, like I mentioned before, they are hardly the only building blocks the team has at their disposal. If (god forbid) Embiid doesn't work out, maybe Saric will when he comes over from Europe in 2016. Or maybe our sure-to-be high pick this year does. Or maybe the almost-as-sure-to-be-high Laker pick does. It's not like they are betting the house on Embiid and Noel here.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Hopefully the league/board is still around in ten years so we can look back on this...particularly as it relates to the Sixers and Celtics! :D

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:59 pm

Mel Torme wrote:Hopefully the league/board is still around in ten years so we can look back on this...particularly as it relates to the Sixers and Celtics! :D



Agreed should be fun to watch, on a side note I am intrigued by Saric, I don't know the competition level well but that dude wins everywhere he goes and I think that should be noted especially since he is the reason. He looks like an interesting playmaker and I like the prospect but obviously I hope it doesn't work out.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Tabata » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:05 pm

I love the Isaiah Thomas trade for Boston. Dude is a baller.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:11 pm

Tabata wrote:I love the Isaiah Thomas trade for Boston. Dude is a baller.



His numbers are similar to Kyrie Irving but he is more efficient scorer with less hype (especially last year they both put up similar numbers on shitty teams). I was pumped when it happened and even more so seeing him fit in so well and open up the offense for the other players who can't create for themselves. And his contract is a steal and when Boston is ready to contend I think he can be an elite 6th man. I love the backcourt of Smart/Bradley/Thomas now we need a defensive big and a wing who can score. Easier said then done.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Mel Torme » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:20 pm

gammajamma wrote:
Mel Torme wrote:Hopefully the league/board is still around in ten years so we can look back on this...particularly as it relates to the Sixers and Celtics! :D



Agreed should be fun to watch, on a side note I am intrigued by Saric, I don't know the competition level well but that dude wins everywhere he goes and I think that should be noted especially since he is the reason. He looks like an interesting playmaker and I like the prospect but obviously I hope it doesn't work out.


Agree with the Saric intrigue. I also don't know a thing about overseas basketball, but the fact that he seems to be winning a major award every month or so certainly has my attention.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby Art Vandaley » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:12 pm

I agree turning MCW into a top 10 pick is a really good trade.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:00 pm

Art Vandaley wrote:I agree turning MCW into a top 10 pick is a really good trade.



I'd agree with that I forgot about the laker pick until Mel brought it up and that changes my view on the MCW trade but my other thoughts on the sixers remain the same. Though it may not be a top 10 pick although most likely it will be.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:50 pm

Looks like 6ers and mcgee are discussing a buyout, if he wasn't such a knucklehead he be a nice rim protector that the C's are lacking although Brad Stevens did make Jordan Crawford look like a productive nba player.

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:05 pm

65 points in the first half against the league's best defense, Let's go!!!!

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Re: 2014/15 NBA

Postby gammajamma » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:18 am

According to Jeff Goodman, celtics close to signing mcgee.


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